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Poster: billydlions Date: Jan 19, 2007 2:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: left to right, where are you?

Good to see all the conservatives here! Wow am I surprised. I would say I am a 2.

I have to admit that I'm dissapointed that purple gel is a 10 since I agree with his musical tastes!

To mad max keep voting libertarian. It's like a republican vote since I would assume its taking away a dem vote (correct me if I'm wrong as I dont know much about that party)

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Poster: Max Chorak Date: Jan 19, 2007 2:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: left to right, where are you?


Im not saying i could not be mistaken..

but wasn't the constitution written by antifederalists dude? er -- I just graduated high school.. been over US hist for over 6 years now (why they repeat the same crap, i dont know)

When the colonists moved to america, they wanted to get away from england cuz england was putting restrictions on them and limiting them from practicing their own religion and crap.

The founding fathers wanted more power for the people, less for fed. government.

They were total anti fed's, am i wrong?

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Jan 19, 2007 4:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: left to right, where are you?


Among the founding fathers were both federalists (Alexander Hamilton, James Madison) and anti-Federalists (Thomas Jefferson, Patrick Henry). Federalism itself was not a central issue regarding the signing of the original Declaration of Independence from England in 1776, as the Federalist movement did not really emerge until the 1780s.

That's why I said, and maintain, that your unqualified statement about the founding fathers "were anti federalists" is simply not true. Some were (or would become so later), some weren't.

I can appreciate that you just graduated high school. Like a lot of things in life, you will find this topic is not so simple as it may appear to you at the moment.

Again, from Wikipedia (and again, there's lots of great stuff here that touches on the tip of the subject of you get more curious):

Anti-Federalism was the name given to two distinct counter-movements in the late 18th Century American politics:

The first Anti-Federalist movement formed in reaction to the Federalist movement of the 1780s. It opposed the creation of a stronger national government under the Constitution and sought to leave the government under the Articles of Confederation intact.

The second Anti-Federalist movement formed in reaction to Alexander Hamilton's aggressive fiscal policies of George Washington's first administration. This movement is sometimes called the Anti-Administration "Party", and it would coalesce into one of the nation's first two true political parties, the Democratic-Republican Party of Thomas Jefferson and James Madison (not to be confused with the modern Republican Party).

The Federalist movement of the 1780s was motivated by the proposition that the national government under the Articles of Confederation was too weak, and needed to be amended or replaced. Eventually, they managed to get the national government to sanction a convention to amend the Articles. When this convention concluded and published the proposed Constitution, opposition to its ratification immediately appeared. This opposition was composed of diverse elements: there were those who opposed the Constitution because they thought that a stronger government threatened the sovereignty and prestige of the states, localities, or individuals, there were those who fancied they saw in the government proposed a new centralized, disguised "monarchic" power that would only replace the cast-off despotism of Great Britain, and there were those who simply feared that the new government threatened their personal liberties.

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Poster: wineland Date: Jan 26, 2007 11:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: left to right, where are you?

Don't forget Washington and Adams as being in the Federalist camp. I see Hamilton as running the show, but those two needed to side with the Federalists in order to make the Union stick as a whole society and ward off the opposition.